Doctor Strange and Moon Knight

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Doctor Strange and Moon Knight

Postby jackalopespam » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:40 am

Doctor Strange: Never Have you Known His Like
While Doctor Strange is active, when an Action die is used, you may use a copy of its effect. You may choose new targets for the copy.


Moon Knight: One-Man Avenger
At the beginning of the game, choose one of your (Avengers) character cards. For the remainder of the game, Moon Knight is considered to have the text of that card (including Global Abilities) instead of this text (replacing their name with his own, if applicable).


Suppose Moon Knight selects to be Doctor Strange at the beginning of the game. Then when I have both characters active, what happens when I play an action die? Let's use Investigation (Draw and roll 2 dice) for example.

A) Play Investigation, I draw and roll 2 dice. Then Doctor Strange uses a copy of Investigation, draw and roll 2 dice. Last Moon Knight uses a copy of Investigation, draw and roll 2 more dice. It ends there with a net result is drawing and rolling 6 dice.

B) Play Investigation, I draw and roll 2 dice. Then Doctor Strange and Moon Knight both use a copy of the original Investigation. Moon Knight is now able to use a copy of Doctor Strange's Investigation while Doctor Strange is able to use a copy of Moon Knight's Investigation. A loop would start until I no longer have dice to draw and roll, or I choose not to use Doctor Strange/Moon Knight's effect. It says may so the player has the choice to stop if desired.

Answer B assumes that "use a copy" in reference to an action applies the previous Ultraman ruling of synonymous wordings.
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Re: Doctor Strange and Moon Knight

Postby dmrulesteam » Wed Jan 04, 2023 8:17 pm

This situation would resolve as your Example (A) - when the Investigation Action die is used, Doctor Strange’s and Moonknight’s abilities will initiate. The use of a copy of Investigation will not initiate these character abilities again.


A Non-global ability from a non-Continuous Action die is “used” once its ability is initiated. Applying a copy of this Action die’s ability will not trigger any “when an Action die is used” abilities (e.g. Attune, Amplify, as well as Doctor Strange).
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Re: Doctor Strange and Moon Knight

Postby jackalopespam » Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:21 pm

For clarity, should we assume that " use a copy of its effect" (Doctor Strange's ability) should NOT be considered synonymous with these phrases found in a previous Ultraman Ruling?

Question 1: For the purpose of game effects are " use an action", " use an action die", "use an action dies effect" equal when found in card text?
Yes.


https://win.wizkids.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12506&p=27102&hilit=ultraman&sid=c6096388113936fe0dcb265849c2890c#p27102

If so how far might this difference extend for other abilities that "copy effects"? Wild Magic has a similar effect of "use a copy of their effects." Would it also break from Ultraman's guidance?

Wild Magic: Basic Action Card
Choose two of the other Basic Action Cards that players brought this game. You may use a copy of each of their effects with *.
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Re: Doctor Strange and Moon Knight

Postby dmrulesteam » Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:15 pm

For clarity, should we assume that " use a copy of its effect" (Doctor Strange's ability) should NOT be considered synonymous with these phrases found in a previous Ultraman Ruling?

Yes. The ruling clarifying Ultraman’s ability answers the question on applying those abilities having the same effect but are stated differently (i.e. “use an Action” / “use an Action die” / “use an Action die’s effect” are synonymous).
However, this ruling does not address using a copy of an Action die’s effect, which the Doctor Strange ruling does. Any Character card ability stating the words “use a copy”, “create a copy”, or “use a second copy” are synonymous when applying the Doctor Strange ruling. Note that we’ve qualified the card text, which is relevant in the next question.

If so how far might this difference extend for other abilities that "copy effects"? Wild Magic has a similar effect of "use a copy of their effects."

There are two cards that are germane to this question: the Basic Action card Wild Magic (which ability is posted above) and the Action card Satchel of Unlimited Weaponry – Sword, the relevant portion of that ability is posted below.
Pay 1 life. When you use an action die from your Reserve Pool that targets 1 or more character dice, Satchel of Unlimited Weaponry may immediately be used as a copy of that die, with new targets.

In the ‘Doctor Strange’ ruling, all of the affected cards are Character cards and each of their abilities follow the rubric: for the resolved Action die => use a copy of its effect. The resolved Action die has been removed from the Reserve Pool (i.e. used) and the Character card’s ability enables that Action die’s ability to be resolved a second time. There is not another copy of that Action die that is being used again.

Satchel’s ability does not fall under the Doctor Strange ruling because its ability enables that die to be used as a copy of the resolved Action die. For all intents and purposes, the Satchel die becomes a copy of the resolved Action die and can be dispositioned accordingly. Therefore, Satchel would trigger any “when an Action die is used” ability.

In Wild Magic’s ability, the words “use a copy” are contextually irrelevant to the Doctor Strange ruling because using a copy of an already resolved Action die ability is not the same as using a copy of an Action die ability that has not been initiated. Wild Magic’s ability is simply enabling that die to use the burst abilities of two other Basic Action dice and also would trigger any “when an Action die is used” ability, twice. Wild Magic’s application is consistent with the Ultraman ruling and should be applied as if the second sentence was stated as: “You may use the * effect of each.”, which aligns with Ultraman’s card text.
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