Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

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Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby ccm00007 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:45 am

Hi,

I have a question about Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite from the Marvel Dice Masters: Secret Wars draft packs.

Specifically, I have a question about his global, which reads as follows:

Global: Pay 3. Roll a character die from your Used Pile, field it if it shows a character face. Can only be used if one of your character dice was spun to an energy face or rerolled this turn.


What happens if I use this global ability but the character die lands on an energy face? Does the character die go to my Reserve Pool or does it return to the Used Pile?

Thanks for your time.
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby dmrulesteam » Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:47 pm

A Character die that rolls an energy face can be moved to the Reserve Pool.

General Discussion
Abilities that roll/reroll dice in the Used Pile and do not specifically state where to move those dice depending what face is showing fall into 3 categories:

(1) If the ability has a player check the result and do something other than just moving the die because of that result (aka a ‘roll and check’ action), the die remains in the Used Pile per the following rules:
Rule 1.6.10 If the rerolling of a die requires you to check the result, the rerolled die does not change its status until the ability is resolved. The rerolled die returns to the play area it was originally located, unless otherwise stated.
Rule 2.5.1 Dice rerolled outside of the Roll and Reroll Step stay in the same play area they were in unless: (a) otherwise stated in an ability to move to a different play area based on the resulting rerolled face, or (b) the die is in a play area that, based on the die face, it cannot legally be located (e.g. a die on an energy face in the Field Zone).

{Conner Kent: Tactile Telekinesis and Harley Quinn: Vengeance Unlimited are examples of this category.}

(2) If the ability can be applied only by an Active player and is not only a “roll and check’ action, move the die to the Reserve Pool. From there the player may field that die (paying any applicable fielding costs) or subsequently spend the energy. {Sheriff Strange: Peacekeeper is an example of this category.}

(3) If the ability can be applied by either the Active or Inactive player (e.g. a Global ability) and is not only a “roll and check’ action, then the Active player follows point (2) above and the Inactive player could move the die to the Reserve Pool only if it rolled an energy face per the following rule:
Rule 1.5.4.3 During your opponent's turn, only dice on an energy face can be in the Reserve Pool.

{The global from Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite when the rolled die shows an energy face is an example of this category.}
Last edited by dmrulesteam on Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Clarifying point (1)
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby jackalopespam » Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:07 pm

Can you give some insight as to how to decide which category an ability belongs? When reading the abilities of the cards mentioned, they all have a common phrasing of "roll a character die from your Used Pile." Furthermore, Conner and Harley don't say to reroll, which may have distinguished the difference you've cited from the Comprehensive Rules.

So instead, is it the fact that there are conditionals stated for both sides of the roll that makes them difference? IE, we know what happens when the abilities on Conner and Harley roll a character face as well as roll an energy face. Thus, those dice should stay in the Used Pile.

Then the lack of direction on the abilities for Sheriff Strange and Stormbreaker Ray (for at least one face) are an indication that you actually get to roll those dice into the Reserve Pool?

Card abilities for reference.
Conner Kent: Tactile Telekinesis
When fielded, roll up to 2 character dice from your Used Pile. For each energy showing on those dice, deal 1 damage to target character die. For each character face showing on those dice, reroll target opposing character die.

Harley Quinn: Vengeance Unlimited
When KO'd, you may roll a character die from your Used Pile. For each energy showing on that die, deal 1 damage to target character die. If that die shows a character face, reroll target opposing character die.

Sheriff Strange: Peacekeeper
While Sheriff Strange is active, when you use an action die, roll a character die from your Used Pile.

Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite
Global: Pay 3. Roll a character die from your Used Pile, field it if it shows a character face. Can only be used if one of your character dice was spun to an energy face or rerolled this turn.
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby dmrulesteam » Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:09 pm

The act of rolling or rerolling a die has no difference when resolving these or similar abilities, or applying the rules cited in this post.

Simply, for a die rolled/rerolled in the Used Pile, the outcomes are:
- the ability is only a ‘roll and check’ action, with no specification on moving the die, the die remains in the Used Pile
- on a Character face, move to [place] specified
- on an energy face, move to [place] specified
- if either or both are not specified,
- - on a Character or energy face the Active player can move the die to the Reserve Pool
- - only on an energy face can the Inactive player move the die to the Reserve Pool
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby archivist » Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:45 pm

Anytime a die is rolled, the result is checked. But how does a player determine what is just a “roll and check action”?
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby weapono » Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:54 pm

A follow up for practicality and for completeness… an inactive player using this global could still field a die that rolled to a character face (as a result of the global) from used as that is what the global dictates (card ability's trump) correct?
And if it rolls to energy it would go to the reserve pool? (for both active and inactive)
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby dmrulesteam » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:03 pm

Anytime a die is rolled, the result is checked. But how does a player determine what is just a “roll and check action”?


For the rolling/rerolling of dice in the Used Pile (or its original play area), the criteria to consider:

(1) If an ability has a player roll/reroll a die outside of the Roll and Reroll Step and that ability does not include relocating the die from the Used Pile (or its original play area), then that ability is just a ‘roll and check’ action. Stated another way: roll a die in the Used Pile, do something when a certain face is rolled, return the die to the Used Pile (either implicitly or explicitly) = a ‘roll and check’ action. Here implicitly means the ability does not specifically state “return the rolled die to the Used Pile” (e.g. Harley Quinn: Vengeance Unlimited). The Poker Night Basic Action Card is an example of explicitly stating what to do with the rolled die.

(2) If the ability states to relocate (i.e. move/field/prep) the die to a different play area when a particular face is rolled, then it is not just a “roll and check” action. For those abilities that do not state what to do with the die when it does not roll the stated face:
(2A) The Active player will move the die to the Reserve Pool if it rolls either a character or energy face.
(2B) The Inactive player will move the die to the Reserve Pool only if it rolls an energy face.
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby dmrulesteam » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:04 pm

A follow up for practicality and for completeness… an inactive player using this global could still field a die that rolled to a character face (as a result of the global) from used as that is what the global dictates (card ability's trump) correct?
And if it rolls to energy it would go to the reserve pool? (for both active and inactive)


Yes and yes for both the Active and Inactive players. Since the Stormbreaker Ray’s global ability specifically states to field the Character die if it shows a character face and since the ability doesn’t state what to do if an energy face is rolled, the die goes to the Reserve Pool.
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby jackalopespam » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:54 pm

dmrulesteam wrote:For the rolling/rerolling of dice in the Used Pile (or its original play area), the criteria to consider:

(1) If an ability has a player roll/reroll a die outside of the Roll and Reroll Step and that ability does not include relocating the die from the Used Pile (or its original play area), then that ability is just a ‘roll and check’ action. Stated another way: roll a die in the Used Pile, do something when a certain face is rolled, return the die to the Used Pile (either implicitly or explicitly) = a ‘roll and check’ action. Here implicitly means the ability does not specifically state “return the rolled die to the Used Pile” (e.g. Harley Quinn: Vengeance Unlimited). The Poker Night Basic Action Card is an example of explicitly stating what to do with the rolled die.

(2) If the ability states to relocate (i.e. move/field/prep) the die to a different play area when a particular face is rolled, then it is not just a “roll and check” action. For those abilities that do not state what to do with the die when it does not roll the stated face:
(2A) The Active player will move the die to the Reserve Pool if it rolls either a character or energy face.
(2B) The Inactive player will move the die to the Reserve Pool only if it rolls an energy face.


Just to add clarity, please consider this hypotehtical ability. "Roll a character die from your Used Pile, if it shows a character face deal the opponent 1 damage."

Here the die is used as a "roll and check" action that does something when a character face is rolled. However, neither the roll of a character face nor energy indicate the die would move locations. So in this hypotehtical the die should remain in the Used Pile after the ability is complete?

Thank you for your time and effort with these explanations. Most of the "roll and check" abilities in the past have had explicit directions for where to send the die, but this should help going forward when it is implicit.
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Re: Stormbreaker Ray: Korbinite (Secret Wars)

Postby dmrulesteam » Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:48 pm

Just to add clarity, please consider this hypothetical ability. "Roll a character die from your Used Pile, if it shows a character face deal the opponent 1 damage."
Here the die is used as a "roll and check" action that does something when a character face is rolled. However, neither the roll of a character face nor energy indicate the die would move locations. So in this hypothetical the die should remain in the Used Pile after the ability is complete?

Yes. Your hypothetical ability (which is similar to the Conner Kent: Tactile Telekinesis and Harley Quinn: Vengeance Unlimited abilities) is an example of implicitly having the die return to its original location.
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