When does Conner Kent: Kon-El count as Superman?

Ask your rules questions here!

Moderator: Dice Masters Mod

When does Conner Kent: Kon-El count as Superman?

Postby m4sterp » Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:01 am

Conner Kent: Kon-El reads:
Conner Kent counts as Superman for effects on your other cards.

There has been some debate about whether or not Conner would be affected by certain Superman cards, for example Superman: Last Son:
While Superman is active, your opponent can't target your Lois Lane character dice.

You can't field Superman unless you control 2 or more Superman Friends character dice.


If you have both Superman and Conner Kent on your team, would Conner also not be able to be fielded unless you control 2 or more Superman Friends characters?

Similarly, Superman: New Krypton:

If a Superman die is in your Reserve Pool, and there are no energy in your Reserve Pool, you may field all character dice in your Reserve Pool for free.


Would having a Conner Kent die and no energy in your Reserve Pool allow you to field your character dice for free?

I feel that when a Superman card mentions Superman, it's purely self-referential and that it would not apply to Conner, and that when a non-Superman card on your team mentions Superman, it would, generally, apply to Conner as well e.g. Lois Lane: Army Brat:

While Lois Lane is active, your Superman dice get +1A and +1D.


Would that be correct?

What about something like Lex Luthor: New Superman:

While Superman is active, Lex Luthor cost 2 less to purchase.


Would having a Conner Kent active allow you to purchase Lex for 2 less?

And Jimmy Olsen: Signal Watch:

While Jimmy Olsen is active, your Superman and Supergirl character dice cost 2 less to purchase (minimum 1) and may be fielded for free.


Would your Conner Kent dice cost 2 less to purchase and be free to field while Jimmy is active?

And for completeness's sake, something like Clark Kent: Daily Planet Photographer:

When a Clark Kent die is KO'd by combat damage, you may search your bag or Used Pile for a Superman™ die and place it in the Field Zone at level 2.


Would you be allowed to search your bag or Used pile for a Conner Kent die and place it in the Field Zone when Clark is KO'd by combat damage?
m4sterp
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:49 pm

Re: When does Conner Kent: Kon-El count as Superman?

Postby dmrulesteam » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:09 pm

Conner Kent’s ability is applying the card title “Superman” to itself. So any ability applying to “Superman” would be applied as “Superman/Conner Kent”.

Therefore, the answer is yes to all of the above questions, except the self-referential one.

Referring to that question - asking if this reasoning is correct - the answer is no. The self-referential aspect of a card name/title refers to the dice only from the card on that player’s team. If an opponent has that same-named card, their dice are not affected by the ability on their opponent’s card, and visa-versa. Each player’s cards and associated dice are completely different, even if they have the same name. (Source: X-Men Forever Rule Book, Fundamental Rules, p. 23)
(Note, Lois Lane’s ability can be applied to a Conner Kent die.)

For Conner Kent, the self-referential aspect means his ability applies only to Conner Kent dice on your team, not your opponent’s. This aspect has no bearing within the context stated in that question.

Also note, while this was not part of this question, “effects” is synonymous with “abilities” in the application of Conner Kent’s ability.
Last edited by dmrulesteam on Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Removing confusing statement.
dmrulesteam
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:27 pm

Re: When does Conner Kent: Kon-El count as Superman?

Postby shadowmeld » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:25 pm

Since Kon-el's ability is a copying effect, a few niche situations arise:

1) if you have both a Superman and a Conner Kent active, would they be considered copies of each other for effects that look for identical dice?
2) if they are not copies, does Conner gain the abilities of your Superman card, in addition to the name? For example, a Superman that while active makes your action dice cost two less, would lead to actions costing two less if the dice were different, but both maintained the ability.

Thanks for the fast replies!
shadowmeld
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:39 pm

Re: When does Conner Kent: Kon-El count as Superman?

Postby dmrulesteam » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 pm

Since Kon-el's ability is a copying effect, a few niche situations arise:

From the paragraph in the previous answer, the focus is that “Conner Kent” can be inserted into any ability that has the word “Superman”. Thus, a Conner Kent die would assume that ability. We understand how our initial answer could cause confusion by stating “treat Conner Kent’s ability as a copying ability”, therefore, we’ve deleted that sentence.
1) if you have both a Superman and a Conner Kent active, would they be considered copies of each other for effects that look for identical dice?

Yes, if an ability is looking specifically for multiple “Superman” dice, Conner Kent would be considered a “Superman” die in this situation. This also means that if both Superman and Conner Kent dice are active, those dice would be considered identical when applying “while active” abilities.

However, Conner Kent still maintains its identity as a distinct die for abilities that apply to dice with the Team Superman affiliation. In these cases, an ability would treat a Conner Kent and a Superman die as distinct character dice when counting how many dice are available to initiate that ability.

2) if they are not copies, does Conner gain the abilities of your Superman card, in addition to the name? For example, a Superman that while active makes your action dice cost two less, would lead to actions costing two less if the dice were different, but both maintained the ability.


We do not fully understand your question. Using the ability you cited from the card Superman – Up, Up and Away:
Impulse - add this die to your bag. While Superman is active, your action dice cost [2 energy] less (to a minimum of 1).


For this ability, if only a Conner Kent die is active, your action dice cost 2 energy less. If both Superman and Conner Kent dice are active, your action dice still cost 2 less. The reason is this is a “while active” ability and since Conner Kent counts as Superman, the cost reduction is only applied once, regardless of the number of Superman or “Conner/Superman” dice in the Field Zone.

There is one ability that requires a clarification based on this ruling, Superman – Phantom Zone Projector:
When fielded, place target character die on Superman’s card and Prep any dice you’ve placed on Superman’s card in a previous turn. If Superman is KO’d or that die’s owner takes damage, Prep all dice on Superman’s card.


Target dice are placed on Superman’s, not Conner Kent’s, card. Likewise, any dice Prepped come from Superman’s card. However, if a Conner Kent die is KO’d, Prep all dice on Superman’s card.
dmrulesteam
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:27 pm

Re: When does Conner Kent: Kon-El count as Superman?

Postby archivist » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:24 pm

Appreciate the quick and thorough answer.

How would this ruling apply to "when fielded" abilities, such as the portion of Phantom Zone Projector?
archivist
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:50 pm

Re: When does Conner Kent: Kon-El count as Superman?

Postby dmrulesteam » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:26 pm

Such abilities imply the specific character (e.g. when [Superman is] fielded). So, Conner Kent can use those abilities as well as any Keyword ability that uses the same triggering convention (when fielded, when attacks, etc.).
dmrulesteam
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:27 pm


Return to Dice Masters Rules Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron